Investigative journalist Donal MacIntyre has become one of TV's biggest personalities. Due to give a talk in Belfast soon, as part of the Cinemagic Film Festival, he tells Lucy Gollogly about exposing abuse in care homes, buying Semtex in the former Yugoslavia - and a controversial new documentary he's made about Johnny Adair

You've done programmes for BBC One, BBC Two, ITV, Sky and Five and also have your own production company, Dare Films. You're one of the most successful journalists to come out of Ireland. How did your career start?

I started off on a sports beat covering soccer, rugby and GAA matches in Co Kildare. These were school matches and so on - of very little consequence - that the papers wanted covered but wouldn't send any of their staff to do. I inherited that some time after Eoghan Corry, a very esteemed sports journalist who wrote a biography on Barry McGuigan, left this post to work for the Sunday Tribune. Then my brother Darren took it on and eventually I got it. I then went on to work for the Sunday Tribune and the Irish Press, both in Dublin.

How did you get into investigative reporting?

I was on the Irish canoeing team and used to work for a BBC sports strand called On The Line. Then the Lyme Regis canoeing disaster happened. Four children drowned and because of my canoeing experience, I went undercover as an adventure-sports instructor, to expose the failures in that system. So it was by chance that I got into undercover reporting; it was serendipity. And once you've done it, people tend to say: 'You were quite good at that, you can do it again'.

But a lot of my work has been straight reportage and documentary work. Anyway, I see undercover reporting as traditional journalism using alternative tools. And as regards that, I think we pushed the boat out as far as anyone could. But we always review our work and try to do the best we can.

You've investigated issues such as the drugs trade, the fashion industry and street crime, among many others. What story are you most proud of breaking?

My work on abuse in the care homes is what I'm most proud of. My brother Tadgh [a sports psychologist and champion canoeist who took a hidden camera into residential care homes in England] and I worked together on four programmes and they've consistently made a difference. I'm an ambassador for Mencap, so it's an issue that is very dear to my heart.

We've built up a level of expertise on that issue now, which is useful for charities to exploit and it also means we can challenge government - because we know when the b*****ds are lying, we can catch them out.

You're giving at talk as part of the Cinemagic World Screen Festival in Belfast later this month. What attributes would you tell young people you need as an investigative reporter?

Well, any journalist relies on their curiosity. You're essentially telling a story, and there's a very old tradition on storytelling, in old country fairs in Ireland and still in countries like Morocco - if you go to Marrakesh you'll find old storytellers there. And obviously rigorous fact-checking is standard in investigative reporting. But I think we work harder than most journalists - a 60-hour working week would be a slow week for me. But I have a good life and it's a path I chose.

What's the scariest experience you've ever had during your investigations? Have you ever really feared for your life or your safety?

Buying arms in the former Yugoslavia. We bought 20 kilos of Semtex from the Kosovo Liberation Army. That was really scary because we were dealing with killers. If those guys had discovered a hidden camera it wouldn't just be a case of getting beaten up - I would be dead; they would have shot me in the head. So that was a very high-octane, dangerous situation. I was glad when it was over.

But people can exaggerate the risks we're under in undercover reports. I do operate on the edge, I fly close to the flame, but I don't tend to dwell on the danger until afterwards. And I would stress that the risks are not foolhardy risks - they're calculated risks and that's part of journalism if you want to make a difference and move things along quickly. I don't tend to dwell on those risks but of course, if things went wrong, you'd know about it very quickly.

You've been the subject of several death threats, notably after a BBC One MacIntyre Undercover expose of the Chelsea Headhunters - the football hooligan gang - as a result of which two of the gang were jailed for conspiring to commit violent disorder and affray. How do those threats affect you?

I have learned to live with them. You can't be looking over your shoulder all the time - it's just not a realistic way to live.

What do your friends and family think of the risks you take in your work?

People take risks all the time in different ways and I think my family and friends know that I'm a good judge of when to push forward and when to pull back in potentially dangerous situations.

You have won many awards for you work, including two Royal Television Society Awards for your World In Action programme on the drugs trade, for which you went undercover as a nightclub bouncer in Nottingham for 11 months. Is professional recognition important to you?

Yes, it's nice to get that recognition because I've had so much abuse for my work, and a lot of the criticism has been extremely vitriolic and ill-judged. I mean, when you put yourself out there you have to take it on the chin but it's frustrating if you're passionate about your work. You know, it's not about awards, it's not about fame ... and it's very easy for the liberal elite, drinking in Islington, to criticise the work we do. We don't live in a fantasy land - we get out there. Whereas these critics are writing from their offices in Fleet Street.

Having said that, we'll take intelligent criticism until the cows come home, but it's frustrating when it's ill-judged.

I'll give you an example. One of the UK's most esteemed cultural critics said something along the lines of: 'Everybody knows there's abuse in care homes, everybody knows there's racism in football. Next week Donal MacIntyre uncovers the Pope's a Catholic'.

And I just thought, you f***wit, if you know there's abuse going on in care homes, what are you doing about it?

I just think it's shallow, trite criticism. I mean, we've got convictions of football hooligans, we've protected the learning-disabled from abuse in care homes, and critics have criticised the act of us doing that. It's slack, snide criticism. It's infuriating because we're passionate about the work we do.

What do you think about the current state of investigative journalism?

I think it's in a very good state, it's never been better. There are so many current-affairs programmes, which you'll see if you compare the TV schedules of 10 years ago with today's. Some people have said investigative journalism is dying but the diversity is amazing. You've got Dispatches, Panorama, Michael Moore, and I think Bremner, Bird and Fortune are really good with the satirical material they do. I've done investigative programmes for the BBC, ITV, Sky and Five so I'm in a unique position to judge. I keep a keen eye on the competition!

Are there any upcoming projects you can give us a sneak preview of?

Yes, there is a MacIntyre's Underworld programme I've made for Five about Johnny Adair, which is going to be rather controversial. Although obviously he has been convicted for crime, we don't make any moral judgement on him; we allow the audience to do that for themselves. That's going out on November 28. He let us into his life and we let the audience decide.

The Edge of Existence is also going out on Five this autumn. It's about the time I spent with indigenous people around the world, such as Bolivian salt miners and a Bedouin tribe in Oman. It explores whether they lose their culture if they open up to the modern world.

BT In Conversation with Donal MacIntyre is on November 30 at 5pm in Castlereagh College, Belfast, as part of the Cinemagic Festival. This event is open to everyone. To book a free place, contact 9031 1900.

17 November 2006
Belfast Telegraph
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/twentyfourseven/story.jsp?story=714932